Talk:Defiant class/archive
Warhead I read about the "Warhead" on a website. I, however, am not certain if it's canon. Anyone? Ottens 18:39, 28 Jun 2004 (CEST) : The warhead is NOT canon in the strictest sense, because it was never even hinted at in an episode. The only place it was described in detail was in the DS9 Tech Manual. -- Dan Carlson 19:14, 28 Jun 2004 (CEST) : The DS9 Technical Manual is often considered "not exactly" canon. Should the information stay, or be removed? Ottens 19:15, 28 Jun 2004 (CEST) Defiant destruction *Does anyone have a picture of the destruction of the Defiant from DS9: "The Changing Face of Evil"? I think this could be a good addition to this page, to complete the chronology of the ship. zsingaya 08:17, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC) *There are two pictures of the Defiant's destruction on the article "Second Battle of Chin'toka" and one on the page for the Defiant itself. Personally I don't think that there's much point putting a picture of the Defiant's destruction on the page for the Defiant class as that page is for the class of vessel, not an individual vessel.--Scimitar 10:13, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::Agreed --Gvsualan 10:19, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC) Deck 5? * I just saw "The Way of the Warrior" on today and when the Defiant was being hit by the Vor'cha while attempting to evacuate the Prakesh, Dax said there was a hull breach on Deck 5. This should be addressed somehow --Gvsualan 23:06, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC) **There have been dialogue references to both deck 5 and deck 6 on the Defiant. The original cutaway, sometims seen in the turbolift, showed the additional decks on the ship, although later artwork and model effects maintain deck 4 is at the bottom of the ship. ***Some have theorized that Decks 5 and 6 are "sub decks" around the lower sections of the nacelle booms (the lowest points of the vessel, they extend below the deck 4 shuttlebay floor in the centerline profile) -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 02:05, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC) Ablative Armor/Cloaking Device * Is the inclusion of ablative armor accurate for this article? This question comes to mind after it was pointed out by Erika Benteen that, "We've been unable to stop the Defiant. Someone's equipped her with ablative armor and neglected to inform Starfleet Operations." This seems to indicate that it was not standard Defiant-class issue, and seemed to be an add-on, exclusively'' to the USS Defiant. I think that means that blanketing the whole class with this feature is a bit presumptious. The same can be said about the cloaking device. Afterall, this article is about the class as a whole and not a single ship which is not exactly a typical "representative sample" of the class as a whole. --Gvsualan 06:11, 30 May 2005 (UTC) * The inclusion of the ablative armor is absolutely appropriate given the on screen evidence. There will be no attempt to justify the identical hull skin looks of Defiant, Valiant and Sao Paulo as anything other than production convenience, but there are important references in dialogue to consider. While The Way of the Warrior references the Defiant's new ablative armor, and Benteeen does indeed make the comment about the armor in Paradise Lost, we must assume that it was simply upgraded armor. This is necessary because in the season three episode Past Tense, Part I, Chief O'Brien references how chronoton particles--Illwill 01:40, 11 March 2006 (UTC) had become lodged in the ship's ablative armor matrix. The idea that this is the same armor being referred to as new in The Way of the Warrior seems unlikely given that it was a good six to eight months after Past Tense. HaganeNoKokoro 00:45, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC) In The Wounded, Picard easily got hold of the command codes for rogue Federation vessel, the USS Phoenix. I bring this up to illustrate how easy it was for a high ranking officer to get a hold of sensitive information about another Federation vessel. If ablative armor hull plating were a standard part of the Defiant-class specfification; the captain of the USS Lakota would have known about it and probably be more prepared for it.(Paradise Lost) The captain of the Lokota made a point of saying that the armor was added without the knowledge of Starfleet Operations(probably against regulations). She had no idea the vessel had been so equiped. Its clear that at least in 2372 ablative hull armor was not standard.(Paradise Lost) Why would we assume it was an upgrade, the whole point of the word canon is that its an established fact. The captain of the Lokota didn't say "someone forgot to tell Starfleet Operations that the Defiant '''upgraded its ablative armor''. On the similar appearance of Defiant-class vessels one can not count out the tactical advantage of having extra armor that appears the same as standard armor(the overcoats worn by the president are kevlar-lined, but you can't tell by looking). *''The more likely explanation is that the producers of the show used the same model for all Defiant class vessels to keep production cost down. '' We only had the pleasure of seeing two other Defiant-class vessels. The Valiant which had neither a cloaking device nor ablative armor, and the [São Paulo renamed USS Defiant (NCC-75633). The USS São Paulo was only involved in one battle, the battle for Cardassia, and though i can't say with one hundred percent certainty that there was no mention of ablative armor, I'm sure the vessel wasn't equipped with a cloaking device. Even if the USS São Paulo had ablative armor its concieveable that it was added by Starfleet (considering they were at war) or Sisko had it added himself like he did the first time. Either way it wasn't mentioned on screen so we can't just insert our own opinion. As a final note there was absolutely no mention of any other cloaking device equiped Federation vessels. In fact, when Thomas Riker stole the Defiant the representive from the Obsidian order specificaly says that the Romulans lent one cloaking device to the Federation.--Illwill 01:39, 18 February 2006 (UTC) :I think the point has been missed here that there were references to ablative armor on the Defiant long before the very pointed reference to the "New" ablative armor in Way of the Warrior. Further, the matter of the appearance of different ships was clearly stated as non-evidence, but production convenience. I don't even think its that complicated. The captain of the USS Lakota was shocked when she found out the Defiant had ablative armor. She was preparing to detain and possibly destroy it, if ablative armor was standard to the class she would have known about it.--Illwill 01:40, 11 March 2006 (UTC) Missing appearances Are there some appearances missing from DS9? -- Warp One 16:55, 10 March 2006 (UTC) :There were a lot of missing appearances, as you say. I think I've got them all now. -- Tough Little Ship 20:29, 17 May 2006 (UTC) 3 Galaxy-class ships? From what episode is it mentioned that the Defiant has the firepower of three Galaxy-class ships? I find this hard to believe seeing as how the USS Valient was so damaged by the Cardassian battleship which is no match for a Galaxy-class. :It's yet another RPG'er comment. Roundeyesamurai 10:36, 5 May 2006 (UTC) wieght how does the entire class weight the same or doesit varry slightly from ship to ship? -- :If you mean by mass, any production design unit is made to be identical to the others, including weight. --OuroborosCobra talk 17:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC) Canon Issues Would somebody please enlighten me where the following are referenced on screen: The vessel's mass. (No such references to my knowledge.) The 'detachable warhead module'. (No such references to my knowledge.) The quantity and location of the vessel's deflector shield generators. (No such references to my knowledge.) The second aft torpedo launcher. (I am aware of one, but don't remember any usage of a second.) If these things cannot be confirmed, I shall make the necessary corrections shortly. : The vessels mass is from the DS9 Tech Manual, as is a lot of the information in the article, which has actually plagued it since the first of two or three times it was nominated for featured article. As for the second torpedo launcher, I believe it is seen on the model itself, one port and starboard, similar to the positioning of the phaser/torpedo launchers on the front of the ship. Also, please sign your talk page comments with --~~~~. Thanks, Alan del Beccio 03:06, 1 December 2006 (UTC) :: I've created a section in the background for the Tech Manual info. All related info that is contained in the article should be moved there. --Alan del Beccio 03:10, 1 December 2006 (UTC) : Apologies for not signing. A bit new to this. If I may suggest: it maybe permissible to rate the ship for "warp 9.5+". The Defiant does attain this speed in "The Sound of Her Voice", although we have no way of knowing if this is the absolute maximum she can achieve. Kv1at3485 04:21, 1 December 2006 (UTC)